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| נשלח ב-30/4/2006 19:07 |
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god
i have a question which has been bothering me for a long time an i wonder if somebody out here has a true good answer. Q. what was the purpose of creating this world in MESELAS YESHURIM he says the following that god is the ultimate of good an so he wanted to give good to others but there was a problem that the receiver would be ashamed for getting good for nothing thus it wouldn't be ultimate good so he created the world for the people to work for there pay day and in turn receive goodness without any prob of being ashamed. Now my question is if god is capable of everything why didn't he overcome this problem an solve the problem i mean the whole concept of being ashamed is only what he made so why make it and create the problem?????????????,
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| נשלח ב-2/5/2006 08:18 |
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the whole concept of being ashamed is only what he made so why make it and create the problem"
In order to answer your question we should come to an agreement about the following, "God cannot do a logical contradiction" once we agree on that then the next step is to see if being satisfied with unearned rewards is a logical contradiction. I believe that it is a logical contradiction.
If the above two premises are correct then the answer to your particular question is clear. So I'll wait to hear from you if you disagree with one or both of the above premises and we shall take it from there.
Oh, and by the way Welcome aboard.
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| נשלח ב-3/5/2006 21:19 |
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I disagree total with you, cause if we believe that god has the ultimate tools and power to do ANYTHING then the whole concept of logic is something which he created like he could create yesh me-yen" - something from nothing which i for myself see as the greatest achievement regarding total power {trust me think about that deeply and its astonishing} so whats the problem to set us to terms which and when logic means nothing cause it rely means nothing only now relative to what we know ? {and why he cant make something which is against logic I don't know , why not -cause your logic tells you so ?!}
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| נשלח ב-5/5/2006 22:13 |
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For starters I would like to inform you that most (or maybe all) of the Rishonim agree with me that God cannot do anything contradictory, they call it נמנעות
But I don't want to prove my point by relying on Authority. So I'll ask you a simple question can God create something but also not create it?
Remember it's not a lack of power on His part it just is a lack of asking anything from him on your part. For if you ask God, please build a house here but don't build it (a contradictory request) the God tells you, my sweetest Moyshele, you're not making sense, you're not asking anything from me.
Having said the above I would like to add that I am a little under the impression (in an as yet unclear way) that there is a certain deep level of existence where logic doesnt really apply. It's in the level of 'before awareness' or 'bechinas Ayin' . The level where things aren't defined in any way so that there is no application to say that 'if this is 2 then it's 2' because there is no defined existence. But in that level there is also no way that you can ask any questions because logic is a perequisite to asking questions. i.e. questions are 'how could this be if so and so is the case', but if nothing is defined then there are no things of what to discuss.
In sum, even if I'll agree that ultimatley on the level of pure existence there is no logic, it doesn't change the fact that once we are dealing with defined existence [as we surely are by virtue of you asking a question] Everyone and Everything [including God] is bound to those rules.
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| נשלח ב-15/6/2006 20:43 |
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The question was: Why did G-D create the world
This question was not answered. Here is why The reason given by RMCH''L is only according to what we know as logic. But G-D is in a different kind of existence, so how can RMCH''L give reasons for an existence that we don't know? His reason is only valid within our own logical system, but it is not the reason why HE created us
You write
The level where things aren't defined in any way so that there is no application to say that 'if this is 2 then it's 2' because there is no defined existence. But in that level there is also no way that you can ask any questions because logic is a prerequisite to asking questions.*:namespace prefix = o />
I disagree
The question is not IN that level. The question is how can you apply our logic to G-D
תוקן על ידי - אמונתחכמים - 15/06/2006 20:46:46
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| נשלח ב-22/6/2006 18:44 |
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Our logic is all we know about whatever god means
Still, we understand that Being-Hove is beyond "why?" as it is whatever "is" like the name Hove
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| נשלח ב-26/6/2006 05:47 |
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שכליאל
I do not understand your question. Please explain
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| נשלח ב-27/4/2007 00:48 |
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Emunat
I meant to say that to ask "why" about god is meaningless if we understand the concept well.
God is a name given to that which is beyond all the questions, the whole all and everything. "Why" can only be asked if there is anything missing to the full picture, but since god is the full picture no "why" is possible.
Here is an interesting link to an interesting book: Richard Dawkins - The God Delusion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_God_Delusion
Synopsis
Dawkins writes that The God Delusion contains four "consciousness-raising" messages:
- Atheists can be happy, balanced, moral, and intellectually fulfilled.
- Natural selection and similar scientific theories are superior to a "God hypothesis" — the illusion of intelligent design — in explaining the living world and the cosmos.
- Children should not be labelled by their parents' religion. Terms like "Catholic child" or "Muslim child" should make people flinch.
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Atheists should be proud, not apologetic, because atheism is evidence of a healthy, independent mind.
תוקן על ידי שכליאל ב- 27/04/2007 0:52:48
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| נשלח ב-20/5/2007 17:42 |
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SACHLIEL
Please bear with me; because i still do not follow
The original question was, why did he create shame so he'll then have to creat a situtation where one will have to be created in this world to earn his payment
Ani Bapesach answered that that god cannot do a logical contradicton. however, he later says that he is under the impression that there exists a state where logic doesnt apply
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| נשלח ב-20/5/2007 17:49 |
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[quote]
SACHLIEL
Pleasebearwithme;becauseistilldonotfollow
Theoriginalquestionwas,whydidhecreateshamesohe'llthenhavetocreatasitutationwhereonewillhavetobecreatedinthisworldtoearnhispayment
AniBapesachansweredthatthatgodcannotdoalogicalcontradicton.however, he latersaysthathe isunder theimpressionthat thereexistsastatewherelogicdoesntapply
That second comment of his, is what i was pointing too. before we are created we "may" be in another type of existance where the reasoning give by the mesilas yeshorim doesnt apply. so how then are we attemping to explain anything beyond our existance? To ask why did god create us, is somthing beyod our existance
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| נשלח ב-20/5/2007 17:59 |
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Please bear with me; because I still do not follow
The original question was, why did he create shame so he'll then have to create a situation where one will have to be created in this world to earn his payment
Ani Bapesach answered that god cannot do a logical contradicton. However, he later says that he is under the impression that there exists a state where logic doesn't apply
That second comment of his is what I was pointing too. Before we are created we "may" be in another type of existence where the reasoning given by the mesilas yeshorim doesn't apply. So how then are we attempting to explain anything beyond our existence? To ask why god created us is something beyond our existence
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