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| נשלח ב-23/9/2005 15:08 |
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In praise of Humility, it's Elul , right
Got Humility?
Do yourself a favor and try Humility for one week. As an experiment, take yourself out of the center of the universe, look at other people as valuable as yourself, look at them from an objective third partie's view. Do it for a week .Once you will get used to this mentality you will all of a sudden see that it's objectively irrational to think of your value as any different than what a third party thinks of you. You will stop putiing yourself in front of someone else simply because it will not make sense for you otherwise.
Humility my Dear friend, Humility.
While at it,
Think objectively on how much of what you are and what happens to you is of your own doing and how much is that of the Machine called Nature, Existence, or whatever. You will see that almost everything you have is not your credit, not your doing. (disclaimer; I don't really go by the concept of free will so that to me Everything is what Nature made happen to me. But all of us will admit that 99% percent of what we are is due to causes that we didn't make happen).
You'll also realize that you have no idea what the future really has in store for you, you weren't the one to facilitate your past so you are not the one to facilitate your future it dependes what the whole Network of Existence will send in your direction.
So now you already belive in God too. Wow.
All of a sudden it seems to you the perfectly rational thing to be moral. It also seems the perfectly rational thing to realize that you are helpless before this Whole Shebang called Existence (Havayah) Totality, that you are totally dependent on It.
What is this Totality, this All Encompassing Existence? What are it's characteristics? I'll throw in one charecteristic for now. It has consciousness, we are after all part of this whole Shebang and we are conscious.
But the truth is we don't konw what the Totality of Existence is. As you don't know what God is. we are talking about the same thing, for you too are only talking about God's Presence how it manifests i.e. acts out in our life. So however you find your God acting out I will inevitably find my God acting too, no? And as far as identifying your God, you're totally fine to be in the dark, so am I. So where do we differ? Maybe by you having some misperceptions about God which once you think clearly you see that you don't really think it so.
You somtimes figure things out one step after another in a logical sequence. Yet other times a deep insight pops into your head from nowhere. Existence just gave it to you out of the blue. You ituited something without any logical buildup. Some people have a different name for it, Prophecy. Can one prepare oneself in such a fashion so as to get more of that intuition? Possibly. Maybe you just have to tune out a lot of other stuff from your consciousness and you'll be more intuitive, dunno. Maybe it's like a radio antenna that can recieve something the primitives never knew existed. As a matter of fact, there are some that claim to have some ways to be more receptive of intuition, maybe there is something to it, maybe the art of Prophecy or intuition was lost when logical thinking gained supremecy.
In the end, we might find Morals, God, perfectly SUPPORTED by rationality, we might even find true that good people get good and bad people bad (in general)[S'char Ve'onesh] almost like any atheist will tell his child that ethicall behavior will make him lead a better life.
Hmm.. so God, Ethics, AND S'char Ve'onesh are borne out rationally. coooool
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| נשלח ב-9/12/2005 08:40 |
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Ani,
You write such nice words about being humble and it all makes so much sense to me.
But I beg you please for God's sake, teach me how to be humble, teach me how to keep it up how to not only cry out from the deepest recess of my heart honest words of humility but to actually write it down on my heart that it should stay there, is should stay in my heart in a place where it will always be in the forefront of my mind, no need to delve into the deepest recess of my heart, it should be as written, nay, engraved in my heart. I don't want it to be a nice thought i want it to be part of me.
No not Part of me, the whole me. and then I'll realize that there is no me.
So help me God.
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| נשלח ב-3/10/2005 08:46 |
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עשיר בפתח 
ודאי אתה צודק, שבעצם אין כלל מושג "אני" ו"אחר" יש רק דרגות קרבה, ויש רק מציאות, [ו"הידיעה" מציינת את האופן של סדר הקיום - מכאן ולהבא למפרע וכו']
כתבת:
If free will is nothing more than another mechanism of Nature then it really is no difference if there is or isn't 'free will'. The proponents of Free will are trying to say that the 'free will' is something that I can take credit for and be accountable for, that free will is the real 'I'. In that case it Davka does not become part of the total existence and it doesn't answer humbly to whatever has been given to it.
גם מצדדי הבחירה, לא ימצאו לעולם בחירה שאינה מתוך מניע בעל נימוק, יהא זה דבר טעים שיש לו התאמת הטעם ודבר בריא שיש בו התאמה לבריאות, והבחירה מכרעת ביניהם, וכיוון ששקולים הם (שכן לא יתכן שיהא אחד עדיף לגמרי ויבחר בו האדם אא"כ נכנסה בו רוח שטות), הרי ששוב זה גזירת המציאות שבכה"ג ייענה האדם למצב על ידי הבחירה.
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| נשלח ב-3/10/2005 04:58 |
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מה שהאדם יודע שאין לו בטחון על יום מחר, זה גם נתון שאם הוא עניו הוא מתחשב בו, אך אינו תנאי לענווה, גם אילו היה יודע כל מה שיש בעתיד להיות, אם הוא נענה למציאות הוא עניו
No one would have a problem being humble if it entails seeing himself as omnipotent and omniscient, the problem and conflict only starts when one illegitimately sees himself and his future more positive than is true, i.e. only when a person is not really omnipotent is there room to exhort him to be humble.
Yet I agree that in theory an Omnipotent and Omniscient Entity (God) is humble too.
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| נשלח ב-3/10/2005 04:47 |
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Yehosef,
Thanks for your input,
Your wrote;
לכא' צ"ל: ראה באחר חלק נמשך במושג החיים, ואת החוויות שאתה חש בקרבה של תחושות גופך או נפשך, רק כדרגה קרובה יותר, אך לא מהות מחולקת
I agree that the words I used are not really the accurate deion of the reality of things. But so are your words, for in truth there is no 'awareness that you are aware of'', there is no You, it's all existences that exist in forms that for need of structuring and characterizing all these existences we conjured up this concept of ''I'' .
Reminds me of how Berkeley got rid of Locke's 'thing in itself' meshugaas. If the existence of this thing is all about our awareness of it, say's Berkeley, then what are you saying that besides all the awareness there is the 'thing in itself'. We can use it only as a figure of speech but not as a true reality.
Taking Berkeley's idea further, we can say that if the existence of the 'self' is all about being aware, then if there is no awareness there doesn't exist a 'self', then awareness is a misnomer. For awareness seems to be implying a mind that is aware, whereas in truth there is no entity called mind that is aware, as we have just agreed that other than awareness there is no mind at all. The right word to use is 'existence', there are many different existences' that cumulatively can be metaphorized as a conscious entity, as a mind being aware of things etc.
My point to you is that we can abstract our 'self' out of existence and rightfully so, but Dibrah Torah K'loshon bnei Odom.
Veto too has corrected me that there still is a difference between myself and others, again I agree and again I think that we shouldn't become so technical every time we try to make a point (Uh oh, I mean when existence tries to make a point.)
באופן אחר, ראה את "האני" כחלק ממנגנון המציאות, הנפעל על ידה, ונענה לה, וזה נכון גם כשישי בחירה, שגם הבחירה מוכרעת מתוך המניע להכריע את אחד מהשניים
If free will is nothing more than another mechanism of Nature then it really is no difference if there is or isn't 'free will'. The proponents of Free will are trying to say that the 'free will' is something that I can take credit for and be accountable for, that free will is the real 'I'. In that case it Davka does not become part of the total existence and it doesn't answer humbly to whatever has been given to it.
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| נשלח ב-2/10/2005 16:52 |
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עב"פ
"look at other people as valuable as yourself"
לכא' צ"ל: ראה באחר חלק נמשך במושג החיים, ואת החוויות שאתה חש בקרבה של תחושות גופך או נפשך, רק כדרגה קרובה יותר, אך לא מהות מחולקת.
ואהבת לרעך כמוך, אינו יכול להיות כמוך ממש, שכן ודאי קרבת אדם לעצמו באופן סטנדרטי גבוה טפי ולכן פירש הרש"ר הירש כמוך, לגבי זכויות, כלומר לגבי הפקעת זכות, אך ניתן גם לפרש כנ"ל, דהיינו ראה באחר חלק מחויית ה"אני", כי האני הן סך החוויה, וכולל השני, ואין אני וזולת אליבא דאמת, רק דרגות של קרבה.
Think objectively on how much of what you are and what happens to you is of your own doing and how much is that of the Machine called Nature, Existence, or whatever.
באופן אחר, ראה את "האני" כחלק ממנגנון המציאות, הנפעל על ידה, ונענה לה, וזה נכון גם כשישי בחירה, שגם הבחירה מוכרעת מתוך המניע להכריע את אחד מהשניים.
Humility meaning to realize that I only have a very limited amount of power over my destiny so that whatevery I am or will be is hardly in my control and hardly due to my doing it is all whatever Existence has dole out to me.
ענווה, משמעה ההכרה שהאדם נפעל על ידי המציאות ונענה לה, והוא אינו מפעיל, וזה גם אילו היה לאדם אנרגיה והיקף רב ביותר. וכאמור, גם הבחירה היא ממניע המציאות, ופעולת ענווה היא. והיינו שגם אם האדם היה מכריע ע"י בחירה את כל פעולותיו, נקודת הבחירה מובאת לו על ידי המציאות, והבחירה עושה כהיענות לבקשת המציאות.
מה שהאדם יודע שאין לו בטחון על יום מחר, זה גם נתון שאם הוא עניו הוא מתחשב בו, אך אינו תנאי לענווה, גם אילו היה יודע כל מה שיש בעתיד להיות, אם הוא נענה למציאות הוא עניו.
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| נשלח ב-23/9/2005 21:17 |
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Hi Any..
I know I owe you a full clear respond in your thread on "why be ethical?" hopefully after the "Terrible Days…".
The way you phrased your request/offer from/to us: "Do yourself a favor and try Humility for one week. As an experiment, take yourself out of the center of the universe," says it all. Doing ourselves a favor by acting like we are not the center of our desire.
Not that I disagree with some humility that each one of us should have mainly to be able to live in a society.
I absolutely disagree (maybe didn't fully comprehended) with the concept that humility change the way one interpret the world. Everyone when inspecting the universe gets humble, only naturally.
On the contrary; one should put himself in the center –that itself will lead understanding, and compromising when accepted.
And this should not, if taken seriously, contradict some amount of humility.
Have a wonderful Shabbat
תוקן על ידי - cosmo_jew - 23/09/2005 21:17:44
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| נשלח ב-23/9/2005 15:11 |
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Just a little anecdote;
I have come to realize that all of ethics is based on the concept of Humility. Humility meaning to realize that I only have a very limited amount of power over my destiny so that whatevery I am or will be is hardly in my control and hardly due to my doing it is all whatever Existence has dole out to me. Believe me this concept makes life a beauty, for all of a sudden there are no false expectations, you look at the future straight in the eye knowing that it could be you will have much less than you have now etc. you're expectations are always predicated by "there is a certain percetage of chance that I will have this that or the other" so you have no wants at all (as wants are really expectations of future reality) In short an existence in harmony with Being.
So I was thinking to myself, ya know I should really set aside some time every morning to meditate and repeat mantra-like this life saving concept of humility, then I realized that that's what Davening is all about, it's repeating to yourself in many different forms that I am not in charge. Sure it's formulated in the metaphorical and poetical image of Existence having personality, will, etc. but are we to be mislead by someone waxing poetical about the moon, giving it a feminine gender and talking of how kindly she seduces us with her romantic glow...? Are we to start seeing the moon as willful and having a gender? Surely not, so why do it with the entirety of Existence?
All of a sudden Davining and even making Berachot are so beautiful and TRUE. Isn't Havaya/being giving it all to you don't you realize that it's not in your power to do anything it's all out of your control? That is all that's really necessary to realize, as above, there will be no expectations and no wants (sure there is a lot more to think about it as I've mentioned to Ortho in an email I sent that this theory is a work in progress .])
Once we realize that this Humility i.e. this realizing that I am not center of the universe, once we start letting in others in our consciousness, living in harmony with all of Existence instead of unreasnably just focusing on one miniscule aspect of it, Myself, then we will realize how important it is to have these constant reminders of such, and how good it is that we give it an aura of importance by doing it together with ten people or by cleaining our selves up a bit (hands mainly) before repeating to ourselves again and again this mantra.
The day when we will all look at reality as it really is, when we will live in harmony with Existence we will then be full of knowledge of Existence and in harmony with All.
I'm afraid I went of in a tangent here. To get back to my point, once we understand that the deepest (and only) desire we have is to be reasonable (we skeptics should know this the best, we want truth above all, whatever the consenquence, we want to live with the facts as they are) we will see the beauty in Rosh Hashonah and Yom Kippur too, days where we dedicate ourselves completely to realigning our focus with Reality, Existence.
Please understand that the above is based on plain simple logic no Mysticism at all.
As I once mentioned, our intution about not being selfcenterd stems from the fact that this is our true essence, we are just looking at reality at facts and when we distort it by zooming in on one part i.e. as if that part has a bigger place in existence than is true, we have an inner struggle because we have a strong sense that reality is not as we arbitrarly positioned it.
It is almost by our capacity of conceptualizing things (and with that the capacity of conceptualizing wrongly) that we have come to mix oursleves up. It seems that the Eitz Hadaas story tries to tell us this concept. Elokim Osuh Es H'adam Yosher V'hem Bikshu Cheshbonos Rabim.
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| מנהל לחץ כאן לנעילת האשכול
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