שרעקליכע טראגעדיע אין קהל באבוב

מיטן אוועקגיין פין א שרעקליכן עקסידענן אין די מאונטענס מיטן אוועקגיין פין ר' פסח גאלדבערג לעבן קעמפ שלוה איך האב געהערט אז ער איז געווען מיט די גאנצע משפחה אויפן וועג צים בר מצוה פין זיין זין

ווער עס ווייסט מער פרטים זאל ביטע אריינשרייבן





תוקן על ידי - 45street - 25/07/2005 4:48:18

Anonymous said...
The levayeh in camp Shalva ended at 11 o'clock. Rabbi Gips and Goldman spoke. They are now on the way to BP. The levayeh will probably be at 3

מ'האט זיך גענומען צו הצלה!

זענען זיי גערעכט וואס זיי שרייבן?

Anonymous said...
I heard some hatalah were upset why the boy was not airlifted to a trauma center as well.

A hatalah member told me today, that B13 and others should have known, that anyone in a car were someone was killed, needs to go to a trauma center and they should have called another chopper.

The problem was the hatzalah mambers thought the boy was basically ok, but of course it turns out he had a broken pelvic, and had to be transported (by helicopter or ambulance? anyone knows?) to westchester.

11:13 AM


Anonymous said...
Does anyone realize the complexity regarding getting a chopper to a scene? Yes maybe he should have transferred them all to a Trauma Center, but calling for a second chopper is not always possible.

11:19 AM


NotHatzolah said...
Sometimes when there is a mass casualty scene, and even when its just one injured, even experienced hatzolah members can become overwhelmed, and chaos can rule.

This goes to a deeper argument, over how well is Hatzolah trained, and how qualified are the CoOrdinators. Most coordinaters are strong armed into the position, and lead by fear.

There needs to be some qualification to being a coordinator, and not just someone who is politically connected.

11:24 AM


NotHatzolah said...
Does anyone know why B13 was in charge and not F60? Was F60 even there?

11:25 AM


Anonymous said...
Because B13 is a co-ordinator and a Bobover who happened to have been a minute away from the accident. He was the first responder.

11:27 AM


Anonymous said...
They almost never land a chopper on the scene; rather to a close parking lot.

It is no big deal to bring 2, it is done all the time, you can also send 2 people in one chopper.

The problem is that the BP hatzala members and coordinators are not enough familiar with the system up there, being used to run to IZ. The upstate gusy know this much better. the call medivac all the time, to ANY serius accident and don't get so excited as hatalah gets when bringing in a chopper.

Hatzalah in the C even conceded this year, and only Sullivan county can now ask for a chopper, after a simmiler bad desician by hatzala last summer, on a child struck in monticello. F60 was then smart enough to concede that his mambers are not made for this, and the county, FD and sherrif handle this better.

But as another said, whoever watched any major hatazala scene knows, it becomes so chayotic, that even the best coordinator will loose his head.

A kid with a broken pelvis, in a car were someone was killed, goes to a truama center!

11:43 AM


NotHatzolah said...
If its not Hatzalah that makes the decisions about choppers anymore, then why was only one called. How come the locals didn't call two?

On another point, I am amazed that in the country people rely exclusively on Hatzolah and ignore the locals and MobileMedic. There are times when it takes 15 minutes for Hatzolah to respond in the country, yet the locals could have responded alot sooner.

11:56 AM


NotHatzolah said...
Can anyone confirm if F60 was on the scene? Also does anyone know the condition of the body that they were able to declare him DOA and not even treat him?

11:57 AM


Anonymous said...
I actually heard 2 choppers we're reqested by sullivan county, but one was canceled by hatzalah on scene.

11:57 AM


Anonymous said...
Why does a scene become so chaotic? Is it the lack of coordination, the buffs that show up, the adrenalin? Or is there some other reason.

When is Hatzolah going to properly train for these types of events, so that cooler minds will be in control of such high pressured incidents.

11:59 AM


Anonymous said...
So Hatzolah overrulled the locals in regards to a Chopper? So much for letting the locals make decisions that they are better experienced about.

12:00 PM


Anonymous said...
Being that everyone is jumping to conclusions let me explain.... A chopper is ONLY allowed to be called to a scene by ALS (paramedics) this is a system wide rule and applies to local EMS as well as Hatzola. You said "Hatzalah in the C even conceded this year, and only Sullivan county can now ask for a chopper" this is false. In order to request a chopper to the scene the Sullivan County Dispatcher has to be notified since the chopper communicates with the units on the scene through their frequency. In addition, once the chopper arrives on the scene the medics on board the chopper evaluate the patient(s) and then determine if the patient is stable enough to fly. If the patient is not stable they get referred to the local hospital (Harris) to be stablized and then they get choppered over to a trauma center. In the case of a broken Pelvic, any one in the medical field knows that a broken pelvic is cause for MASS blood loss, thereby, eleminating a flight to any trauma center untill fluids are given and the patient is stabilized......

12:01 PM


NotHatzolah said...
And why can't the fluids be given by the medics on the field? How about using MAST pants. I know in the city they are never used, but this is exactly the situation that calls for that.

12:08 PM


Anonymous said...
TOTALLY NOT TRUE!!

1) a chopper can be called by any police or EMS on scene, NOT just medics! (look up the westcheter web site.)

2) As was in the Record lately, Hatzaloh agreed with Sullivan county, that when they need a chopper they ask Sullivan to call for them. Sullivan Fire then sets up a landing zone and the FD, NOT hatzala, communicates with the chopper.

3) you are correct, the chopper medics avaluate the pt on scene and decide.

4) broken pelvis is unstable to fly! BS! they fly drivers who are almost dead! as long as they are not coded!
again, look in their web site. pelvic fracture is one of the reasons to call a chopper!

5) give fluids? It is now excepted that fluid does not do much for major trauma victims. what they need is a LEVEL ONE TRAUMA CENTER and a fast surgury to stop the blood loss, NOT a little fluid!

12:13 PM


Anonymous said...
Whats the website that you are reffering to?

12:14 PM


NotHatzolah said...
So what someone is saying, is that they properly called for 2 choppers, and that the medics on the chopper made the decision to not transport a broken pelvis?

12:15 PM


Anonymous said...
Sullivan county got the info from the police, on how many injuries there are, and asked for two choppers.

The police and FD there are very good at this; since they only have small hospitals they MUST by state law transfer these victims by chopper.

Hatzalah on the scene probably did not recognize the pelvis problem and canceled the second chopper. (the helicopter medics did not even see the boy)

Yes, it is an old story that hatzalah has too many hot heads, who totally loose it on major accidents. They are not realy made for this. the locals would be much better at this.

12:17 PM


Anonymous said...
You guys are making it sound like Hatzolah messed up.

12:18 PM


Anonymous said...
It is very clear that Hatzolah needs more training in dealing with these types of incidents.

12:19 PM


Anonymous said...
Gips does not have the knowledge for such an accident, in upstate Sullivan county. "Maybe" F60 would be better.

בפורום חדשות אנ"ש יש תיקון לשם האשה:

טויבא חנה בת שרה רבקה. לרפו"ש.

July 26, 2005

South Fallsburg
Dad of six killed in crash; mom, kids hurt

A father of six is dead and his wife remains in critical condition in Westchester Medical Center after their minivan crashed head on with another vehicle Sunday night en route to their son's bar mitzvah.
Peisach Goldberg, 45, of Brooklyn, was killed and his wife, Toba, was flown from the scene. Goldberg's funeral was held yesterday in Borough Park before hundreds of friends and family.
The couple's minivan crashed head on with a Ford Explorer around 8:45 p.m. on Thompsonville Road near the Raleigh Hotel.
Four daughters and two sons, ranging in age from 2 to 16, sustained injuries. The 16-year-old was admitted to hospital with a hip injury, according to authorities.
The driver of the Ford, James Krueger of Pine Bush, his wife and 10-year-old twin sons were also injured, but not seriously.
The accident happened on a straight section of the road. Both cars left skid marks.
"We are still trying to determine the reason (for the accident)," Lt. John Calvello of Fallsburg police said.
Goldberg was a well-known biblical teacher in the Hasidic community, said Rabbi Bernard Freilich, the state police's special assistant to the superintendent.
"He was a scholar; he was a teacher, a great guy," Freilich said.

Victor Whitman



http://www.recordonline.com/archive/2005/07/26/brf750.htm

תוקן על ידי - 45street - 26/07/2005 18:49:25

Hasidic teacher from NYC killed in upstate crash

SOUTH FALLSBURG, N.Y. A head-one crash in the Catskills claimed the life of a well-known teacher in Brooklyn's Hasidic Jewish community and left his wife in critical condition.

Authorities in Sullivan County say 45-year-old Peisach Goldberg was killed Sunday night when his minivan crashed into another vehicle on a road just north of Monticello, about 80 miles northwest of New York City.

Goldberg, his wife Toba and their six children were en route to their son's bar mitzvah. The funeral for the father -- a well-known biblical teacher -- was held yesterday in Brooklyn's Borough Park neighborhood.

Toba Goldberg was in critical condition at Westchester Medical Center.

Her children -- four daughters and two sons ranging in age from two to 16 -- sustained injuries.

The four members of the family riding in the other vehicle suffered minor injuries.

The cause of the accident is under investigation.


http://www.wstm.com/Global/story.asp?S=3640580


Hasidic Teacher Killed On Way To Son's Bar Mitzvah

http://www.wnbc.com/news/4769312/detail.htmlהטקסט שלך כאןהטקסט שלך כאן

CRASH KILLS RABBI ON WAY TO SON'S BAR MITZVAH

By ANGELINA CAPPIELLO and DAN KADISON

July 26, 2005 -- A beloved Brooklyn rabbi died in a Catskills car accident on the way to his son's bar mitzvah, police said yesterday.
Rabbi Pesach Goldberg, 47, was at the wheel of his Ford Aerostar minivan Sunday evening driving his wife and several of their children to the ceremony in Sullivan County when a Ford Explorer approached from the opposite direction, police said.

"One of them swerved out of the lane and hit the other one head on," said Fallsburg Police Lt. John Calvello.

He said the accident reconstruction isn't complete and it is unclear what or who caused the crash on the "well-traveled" two-lane artery.

But the uncle of Goldberg's wife, Dova, said the family had just driven away from Camp Shalva in South Fallsburg — where they reside for the summer — and were headed to a Woodburn catering hall for a bar mitzvah celebration for their 13-year-old son, Ezra.

Goldberg "came out of the camp with his family, and a child on a bicycle rode in front of his car," said the uncle, Ahron Lieberman. "He tried to avoid the child and the collision happened."

Goldberg was pronounced dead at the scene and his wife was in critical condition. Six children, ages 2 to 13, were rushed to the Catskill Regional Medical Center in Harris with severe injuries, said Calvello.



Dova, who fractured her skull, was airlifted later to Westchester Medical Center, where her condition improved sufficiently to be taken off a respirator yesterday afternoon, sources said.

Shocked loved ones gathered at Bobover Synagogue in Borough Park, Brooklyn, yesterday to attend Goldberg's funeral.

The father of nine children in total, Goldberg was remembered as a loving man and a dedicated teacher of Jewish studies.

"From the day he joined our family, over 20 years ago, he was a good man," said Lieberman.

"We were a very united family. [On Sunday] night we went for a party and came back with a dead man."

The occupants of the other car — James Krueger, 45, of Orange County, his wife, Joanie, 44, and their two 10-year-old twin boys — were rushed to Catskill Regional and were in stable condition, Calvello added.


http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/50822.htm

מצורף קובץ

ר' פסח גאלדבערג לייגט תפילין פאר זיין זון לעצטע וואך דאנערשטיג ביי זיין טאטע הרב החסיד הישיש ר' שלוימעלע הי"ו


Photo credit - Mickey Gutstein (514) 485-0127