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| נשלח ב-12/8/2005 06:29 |
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מאדרען ארטאדאקס האבען דאך נישט קיין מסורה.
זייער מסורה איז חדש מותר.
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| נשלח ב-12/8/2005 06:34 |
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אבער מציצה בכלי מיט הענטעשעך פינעם מוהל פין וואשינגטאן הייטס וואס איז א מומר אין דעם אין ער לאזט נישט צו קיין אנדערע וואס ווילען טון גערן נאר ער שטייט אין רעד אין האקט דערויף דאס איז די סיבה פארוואס ער איז נישט געקומען אין והמבין יבין
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| נשלח ב-12/8/2005 07:28 |
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The Agudah had meeting with the Bloomberg admin. about this a few months ago. At that meeting alot of things were settled.
Someone (without a name) decided that the Agudath Israel does not represent the Chasideshe Kehilas and requested a meeting with the Mayor in the name of all the Rabonim Yesterday 1:30pm.
The Mayor did not think twice and put everything on hold and asked Commissioner Greenspun & Councilman Felder to try to have the meeting today at 10am.
Late last night, after all the Rabonim were contaced, the meeting was confirmed.
The Noveminsker was at the Agudah Meeting.
תוקן על ידי - politic - 12/08/2005 7:29:58
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| נשלח ב-12/8/2005 11:11 |
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http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/51808.htm
MAYOR OKS CIRCUMCISION RITE
By STEPHANIE GASKELL
After a closed-door meeting at City Hall with members of the Orthodox Jewish community yesterday, Mayor Bloomberg decided not to ban a little-known practice in which a rabbi draws blood with his mouth after a circumcision to clean out impurities.
The custom is thousands of years old, but earlier this year, health officials investigated Rabbi Yitzchok Fischer of Rockland County after an infant he circumcised that way died from herpes.
At the time, city lawyers called the practice "a threat to the public health."
Health Commissioner Thomas Frieden said yesterday his department "has no intention of banning or regulating the practice of metzitzah b'peh."
Rabbi David Niederman of Brooklyn, who attended the meeting, said he's confident Bloomberg, who is Jewish, understands the Orthodox customs.
"The mayor was very clear that he has respect and support for religious Jews to practice their religion," Niederman said.
Fischer was questioned after health officials learned three other babies he circumcised contracted herpes, according to published reports. Health officials filed a legal complaint ordering Fischer to use a sterile tube and wear protective gloves, and said he has agreed to abide by that order.
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| נשלח ב-12/8/2005 16:34 |
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תכלית, נאך אלע 311 קאללס, און אלע גרויסע רבי'ס און רבנים'ס השתתפות ביי דער ספעציעלע 311 מיטינג,
וועט פישער מעגען מאכען מציצה בפה?
האט דער קאמפיין עפעס אויפגעטוהן?
(לתשומת לבכם, אנדערע מוהלים האבען ביז איצט אויך געמעגט מאכען מציצה בפה...)
(הערה צדדי לגמרי)
וועסטו לאזען פישער זיין א מוהל ביי "דיינער" קינדער אויב ער אליין מאכט די מציצה?
בהוקרה,
דזשיד
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| נשלח ב-12/8/2005 16:44 |
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POLITIC
WHEN DID THE AGUDAH HAD A MEETING A FEW MONTHS AGO WITH THE MAYOR?
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| נשלח ב-12/8/2005 19:30 |
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רבותי איז דער אשכול וועגן פאליטיק סאטמאר - באבוב אדער וועגן מציצה בפה?
יעצט צום ענין
קודם האט גערעדט הרב אלבוים וועגן אז עס איז נישט קיין סכנה אויף דעם האט דער מעיאר גאזאגט אז ער איז אויך א איד און ער דארף זארגן פאר סעיפטי, און דער העלט קאמישענער האט געדארפט רעדן
האט הרה"צ ר' אלעזר חיים בלום מקאשוי שליט"א געקלאפט אויפן טיש און געבעטן רשות צו רעדן
און ער האט גערעדט פאר 20 מינוט
דער תמצית איז אז לב מלכים ושרים ביד ה'
שלומה של מלכות, רעספעקט
אבער מיר וועלן האבן מסירת נפש, מיר וועלן ווייטער מאכן מציצה בפה בלי שות שינוי אפילו מיר וועלן גיין און תפיסה
וואס פעלט דיר אויס אז מען וועט זאגן מעיאר בלומבערג זעצט איין אידן פאר מציצה בפה
נאכדעם איז ער אריבער ווי שטארק די מצוה איז
און ווי די הלכה איז זייער מקפיד אויף געזונט אסאך מער ווי דאקטורים
אויספיר מיט טרערן און די אויגן
מיר בעטן דיר מיש דיך נישט און אונזער רעליגיע
און מיר וועל דיר סיי ווי נישט פאלגן
נישט קיין חילוק צו א יחיד אדער א רבים
דער מעמד איז געווען מורא'דיג
אלע זענענן געזעסן מיט אפענע מיילער
און נאכדעם האט דער מעיאר געזאגט פארן קאמישנער ער זאל נישט רעדן מער
און דער מעיאר האט זיך באדנקט פארן קאשוי רב פאר זיין רעדע
עס איז געווען א גרויסער קידוש השם.
איינער וויסט אויב עס איז דא טעיפס?
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| נשלח ב-12/8/2005 20:10 |
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jid
די סיטי האט א ברירה ארויסצו געבן פישער'ס מעדיקל פייל, פישער איז מסכים דערצו.
אויב עס איז דא א שאלה אין פישער'ס בריאות וועלן די רבנים אליין אים אפשטעלן צו מאכען מציצה.
פארגעס נישט אז הלכה איז מער מקפיד ווי די דאקטורים, למשל ביי געלקייט.
איך בין נישט מחיוב מקבל צו זיין פון טענדלער, אין איך האלט אז א נארמאלער מענטש וועט אים נוצען דערווייל.
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| נשלח ב-12/8/2005 22:16 |
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Mike caught in row over rabbi's herpes
By MAGGIE HABERMAN
DAILY NEWS CITY HALL BUREAU
City officials have moved to ban a rabbi suspected of infecting infants with herpes from performing an ancient circumcision rite, prompting religious Jewish leaders to plead with Mayor Bloomberg to intervene.
Bloomberg sat down at City Hall yesterday with dozens of ultra-Orthodox rabbis, who said they are concerned that such a ban would set a bad precedent, according to several people at the meeting.
The mayor "basically accepted a suggestion that the time should be given for both sides to sit down and iron this thing out," said Rabbi David Niederman, who praised Bloomberg.
But several sources said the mayor promised that the city would never ban a religious practice outright - but also held firm that he "has an obligation" to uphold laws.
The Daily News first reported in February that the city Health Department was investigating whether Rockland County-based Rabbi Yitzchok Fischer gave herpes to a baby through the practice of metzizah b'peh - in which the rabbi uses his mouth to suck blood from the circumcision wound. The baby later died.
On Aug. 1, the Health Department sent Fischer's lawyer a draft of an order banning the rabbi from performing metzizah b'peh in the city, officials said. Fischer has until next week to respond.
But the threat of such an order alarmed the ultrareligious community.
The controversy is still roiling at a time when Bloomberg, who has had a somewhat strained relationship with the Orthodox community, is looking to repair things before the November election.
Originally published on August 12, 2005
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| נשלח ב-14/8/2005 11:15 |
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http://www.newsday.com/news/health/ny-nycirc134382376aug13,0,4469015.story?coll=ny-health-headlines
DAN JANISON
August 13, 2005
The city will carry out a health study of an ancient circumcision rite practiced by some Orthodox Jews that, in the case of one rabbi, was suspected of infecting infants with herpes, Mayor Michael Bloomberg said Friday.
Bloomberg said he met Thursday with rabbis and decided on the study "to make sure everybody is safe" when metzizah b'peh is performed.
"At the same time, it is not the government's business to tell people how to practice their religion," he added when quizzed during a weekly radio interview.
"There are two things here that are terribly important to everybody," Bloomberg said. "One is, we have an obligation to protect the health of everybody. And two, we have an obligation to make sure people can practice their religion the way they want to."
Earlier this month, the city Health Department sent Rabbi Yitzchok Fischer of Rockland County a draft of an order barring him from performing the rite. During the rite, a rabbi sucks blood from the circumcision wound.
Copyright 2005 Newsday Inc
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| נשלח ב-26/8/2005 08:13 |
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zeidel
-------
City Questions Circumcision Ritual
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/26/nyregion/26circumcise.html
City Questions Circumcision Ritual After Baby Dies
Edward ReedMayor Michael R. Bloomberg met with Orthodox leaders and health officials at City Hall on Aug. 11 to discuss a practice that some rabbis consider integral to God's covenant with the Jews requiring circumcision.
By ANDY NEWMAN
Published: August 26, 2005
A circumcision ritual practiced by some Orthodox Jews has alarmed city health officials, who say it may have led to three cases of herpes - one of them fatal - in infants. But after months of meetings with Orthodox leaders, city officials have been unable to persuade them to abandon the practice.
The city's intervention has angered many Orthodox leaders, and the issue has left the city struggling to balance its mandate to protect public health with the constitutional guarantee of religious freedom.
"This is a very delicate area, so to speak," said Health Commissioner Thomas R. Frieden.
The practice is known as oral suction, or in Hebrew, metzitzah b'peh: after removing the foreskin of the penis, the practitioner, or mohel, sucks the blood from the wound to clean it.
It became a health issue after a boy in Staten Island and twins in Brooklyn, circumcised by the same mohel in 2003 and 2004, contracted Type-1 herpes. Most adults carry the disease, which causes the common cold sore, but it can be life-threatening for infants. One of the twins died.
Since February, the mohel, Rabbi Yitzchok Fischer, 57, has been under court order not to perform the ritual in New York City while the health department is investigating whether he spread the infection to the infants.
Pressure from Orthodox leaders on the issue led Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg and health officials to meet with them on Aug. 11. The mayor's comments on his radio program the next day seemed meant to soothe all parties and not upset a group that can be a formidable voting bloc: "We're going to do a study, and make sure that everybody is safe and at the same time, it is not the government's business to tell people how to practice their religion."
The health department, after the meeting, reiterated that it did not intend to ban or regulate oral suction. But Dr. Frieden has said that the city is taking this approach partly because any broad rule would be virtually unenforceable. Circumcision generally takes place in private homes.
Dr. Frieden said the department regarded herpes transmission via oral suction as "somewhat inevitable to occur as long as this practice continues, if at a very low rate."
The use of suction to stop bleeding dates back centuries and is mentioned in the Talmud. The safety of direct oral contact has been questioned since the 19th century, and many Orthodox and nearly all non-Orthodox Jews have abandoned it. Dr. Frieden said he hoped the rabbis would voluntarily switch to suctioning the blood through a tube, an alternative endorsed by the Rabbinical Council of America, the largest group of Orthodox rabbis.
But the most traditionalist groups, including many Hasidic sects in New York, consider oral suction integral to God's covenant with the Jews requiring circumcision, and they have no intention of stopping.
"The Orthodox Jewish community will continue the practice that has been practiced for over 5,000 years," said Rabbi David Niederman of the United Jewish Organization in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, after the meeting with the mayor. "We do not change. And we will not change."
David Zwiebel, executive vice president of Agudath Israel, an umbrella organization of Orthodox Jews, said that metzitzah b'peh is probably performed more than 2,000 times a year in New York City.
The potential risks of oral suction, however, are not confined to Orthodox communities. Dr. Frieden said in March that the health department had fielded several calls from panicked non-Orthodox parents who had hired Hasidic mohels unaware of what their services entailed.
Defenders of oral suction say there is no proof that it spreads herpes at all. They say that mohels use antiseptic mouthwash before performing oral suction, and that the known incidence of herpes among infants who have undergone it is minuscule. (The city's health department recorded cases in 1988 and 1998, though doctors in New York, as in most states, are not required to report neonatal herpes.)
Dr. Kenneth I. Glassberg, past president of the New York section of the American Urological Association and director of pediatric urology at Morgan Stanley Children's Hospital of New York-Presbyterian, said that while he found oral suction "personally displeasing," he did not recommend that rabbis stop using it.
"If I knew something caused a problem from a medical point of view," said Dr. Glassberg, whose private practice includes many Hasidic families, "I would recommend against it."
But Rabbi Moshe Tendler, a microbiologist and professor of Talmud and medical ethics at Yeshiva University, said that metzitzah b'peh violates Jewish law.
"The rule that's above all rules in the Torah is that you cannot expose or accept a risk to health unless there is true justification for it," said Dr. Tendler, co-author of a 2004 article in the journal Pediatrics that said direct contact posed a serious risk of infection.
"Now there have been several cases of herpes in the metro area," he said. "Whether it can be directly associated with this mohel nobody knows. All we're talking about now is presumptive evidence, and on that alone it would be improper according to Jewish law to do oral suction."
The inconsistent treatment of Rabbi Fischer himself indicates the confusion metzitzah b'peh has sown among health authorities, who typically regulate circumcisions by doctors but not religious practitioners.
In Rockland County, where Rabbi Fischer lives in the Hasidic community of Monsey, he has been barred from performing oral suction. But the state health department retracted a request it had made to Rabbi Fischer to stop the practice. And in New Jersey, where Rabbi Fischer has done some of his 12,000 circumcisions, the health authorities have been silent.
Rabbi Fischer's lawyer, Mark J. Kurzmann, said that absent conclusive proof that the rabbi had spread herpes, he should be allowed to continue the practice. Rabbi Fischer said through Mr. Kurzmann that the twin who died and the Staten Island boy both had herpes-like rashes before they were circumcised and were seen by a pediatrician who approved their circumcision. The health department declined to comment on its investigation.
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| נשלח ב-26/8/2005 20:44 |
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ontroversial Circumcision Rite Becomes Issue in Mayoral Race
By Steven I. Weiss
August 26, 2005
The controversy over a disputed circumcision ritual could affect the mayor's race in New York City, as some members of the Hasidic community are promising to protest any restrictions placed on the mohel in question.
Rabbi Yitzchok Fischer has been the subject of an investigation by the city's health department since three infants tested positive for herpes simplex, one of whom later died. At issue is whether Fischer transmitted the virus to the infants via direct oral suction of the circumcision wound — a method known as metzitzah b'peh, a traditional ritual still prevalent in many Orthodox communities.
Since the investigation was first revealed in February, the department has obtained a court-issued temporary restraining order "consented to by the mohel" that "prevents him from performing the metzitzah b'peh," according to a lawyer heading the city's legal action on the case. The attorney added that "the proceeding brought by the city to compel the mohel to provide a blood sample has been adjourned several times."
The health department and Mayor Michael Bloomberg have stated repeatedly at meetings with ultra-Orthodox leaders that a general ban on the practice is not in the cards. One such meeting, with 22 Hasidic rabbis, took place August 11 at City Hall.
Rabbi Hillel Weinberg of the Central Rabbinical Congress, a Satmar organization, attended the meeting and told the Forward that Bloomberg "says that he's not considering" a ban on the practice. However, Weinberg added, the Satmar community would consider any restriction placed on Fischer to be a ban and would cause a reaction that could hurt Bloomberg at the polls in the upcoming election.
Weinberg said that his community has met with all four Democratic mayoral candidates to discuss the issue, but none have made any promises about what they would do about the issue if elected.
One Democratic candidate, Rep. Anthony Weiner, who represents ultra-Orthodox neighborhoods in Brooklyn, told the Forward, "It is not the place of the department of health to be deciding on a religious practice." Weiner added, "I am troubled, based on the facts of this case, about whether or not the city has overreached here."
None of the other Democratic candidates contacted by the Forward would comment on the administration's approach.
Rabbi David Zwiebel, government affairs representative for ultra-Orthodox organization Agudath Israel of America, said that his group has "stated that we think there is something not right about the city making this final determination without allowing Rabbi Fischer and his experts full access to the investigatory data."
Zwiebel also said that the city is seeking to replace its temporary restraining order with a permanent one. A city official declined to comment on this claim, saying it "involves ongoing legal issues."
While Zwiebel raised questions about the city's action, it stopped short of the Satmar leaders' demand that Fischer's actions not be restricted in any way no matter what evidence the city has compiled against him.
The split reflectsa growing divide between Agudath Israel, the organization that is often seen as the primary representative of the ultra-Orthodox community, and some of the community's Hasidic members, who deny that the organization adequately represents their interests. While the Agudath Israel officially represents several Hasidic sects, the largest (Satmar) and the most well known (Chabad-Lubavitch) are not a part of the organization.
Neither Zwiebel nor any other Agudath Israel representative was invited to the August 11 meeting between Bloomberg and Satmar rabbis. Agudath Israel-affiliated rabbis had their own meeting with the mayor several months ago.
In general, Zwiebel said that for decades, the strongly anti-Zionist Satmar community has been critical of Agudath Israel for its acceptance of Israel. He added that some segments of the ultra-Orthodox community that require metzitzah b'peh might feel that Agudath Israel "does not represent their interests" because the organization includes some groups that do not require the ritual.
Zwiebel described the Satmar community as "a growing force" that "sometimes pursues issues through their own advocates and their own method."
"We don't have a problem with that," Zwiebel said.
The issue of regulating some or all ritual circumcisers as a means of preventing herpes is a complicated issue, since an estimated 90% of the American population carries the antibodies for the virus and it is hard — perhaps impossible — to predict which individuals are more likely than others to spread it. Some groups, including the Modern Orthodox-dominated Rabbinical Council of America, have recommended using a sterile tube and gloves to avoid direct oral contact — but that option has been rejected by Hasidic sects and by other ultra-Orthodox communities as religiously unacceptable.
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| נשלח ב-30/8/2005 01:52 |
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http://slate.msn.com/id/2125225/
fighting words
Cut It Off
Another disgusting religious practice.
By Christopher Hitchens
Posted Monday, Aug. 29, 2005, at 2:08 PM PT
I can never read the name "Michael Bloomberg" without an automatic free-association that flashes up in my mind. "Little putz," is what my internal prompter always cues to me. Obviously this and other intuitions must be prompted by whatever grand intelligence originally designed me, because here's what I read on page B5 of the New York Times on Friday, Aug. 26:
A circumcision ritual practiced by some Orthodox Jews has alarmed city health officials, who say it may have led to three cases of herpes—one of them fatal—in infants. … The practice is known as oral suction, or in Hebrew, metzitzah b'peh: after removing the foreskin of the penis, the practitioner, or mohel, sucks the blood from the wound to clean it.
The continuing scandal of this practice, which most Jews abandoned many years ago, is newly illustrated by the death of one little boy from type-1 herpes, and the infection of two others, in Staten Island and Brooklyn, after they had been subjected to this ritual by the same mohel. Let's be clear what's involved here. The Times refers to an article published last year in the journal Pediatrics that argued that metzitzah b'peh carries a serious health risk and is, for that reason alone, a violation of Jewish law. ("We suspect … that this entity is underreported for cultural reasons and that the studies described here are only the "tip of the iceberg" of the true incidence of the disease," the authors note). None of this should be hard to comprehend: If it risks the life or health of an infant, then no religious allegiance is or should be required for its condemnation. Q.E.D., as you might say.
What's Bloomberg got to do with this, you may be impatient to know by now. Well, the mayor of the great city where these children were deliberately exposed to infection and death has had a meeting with the Orthodox authorities who like to see this happening to small putzes, and he has expressed himself thus, on his own radio show, again as per the Times:
We're going to do a study, and make sure that everyone is safe and at the same time, it is not the government's business to tell people how to practice their religion.
Study? What study? Can't the fool get through an article by a Jewish authority in Pediatrics? For the Times reporter to add that Mayor Bloomberg's comment appeared to be designed not to "upset a group that can be a formidable voting bloc" was, in the circumstances, worse than superfluous.
Where to start with this? I could wish that Bloomberg were always so careful about keeping out of other peoples' business: He has made it legally impossible to have a cigarette and a cocktail at the same time, anywhere in the city. But I'll trade him his stupid prohibitionist ban if he states clearly that it is the government's business to protect children from religious fanatics. Female genital mutilation, for example, is quite rightly banned under federal law, and no religious exemption is, or ever should be, permitted. The Mormons were obliged to give up polygamy and forcible marriage before they, or the state of Utah, could be part of the United States. A Christian Scientist who denies urgent medical treatment to his or her children may well be hauled up for reckless endangerment, as may those whose churches teach redemption through violent corporal punishment. The First Amendment does indeed forbid any infringement of religious freedom, but it is not, as was once said, part of a suicide pact, let alone a child-abuse one.
Let's by all means hear from Rabbi David Niederman of the United Jewish Organization in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, who emerged from his meeting with Bloomberg to inform us that: "The Orthodox Jewish community will continue the practice that has been practiced for over 5,000 years. We do not change. And we will not change." You can preach it, rabbi, but you have no more right to practice it than a Muslim imam who preaches the duty of holy war has the right to put his teachings into effect. And Rabbi Yitzchok Fischer, the 57-year-old man who ministered to the three boys in question, is currently under a court order that forbids him from doing it again—pending an investigation by the health department. What "investigation?" If another man of that age were found to be slicing the foreskins of little boys and then sucking their penises and their blood, he would be in jail—one hopes—so fast that his feet wouldn't touch the ground. If he then told the court that God ordered him to do it, he would be offering precisely the defense that thousands of psychos have already made so familiar. Preach it rabbi. Preach it to the judge.
A few years ago I traveled to Calcutta with the brilliant photographer Sebastião Salgado, who has made the eradication of polio his signature cause. In 2001, there was a real chance that this childhood-wrecking and frequently lethal malady could go the way of smallpox. Only a few outposts, usually in very bad war zones like Afghanistan, had not been reported as "clear." (The two sides in the civil war in El Salvador observed a truce so that the vaccine could be safely distributed.) But some mullahs in Bengal spread the rumor that the vaccine led to impotence and diarrhea (a bad combo) and urged mothers to keep their children away from the nurses and physicians. Most Bengalis are too smart to listen to ravings like these, which exactly resemble the view of Dr. Timothy Dwight, one of America's founding divines, that vaccination against smallpox was an interference with the divine design. However, in northern Nigeria, where imams now hold state power in many provinces, the polio vaccine has been denounced as a plot "by the US and the UN [!]" to "sterilize Muslims." In consequence of this fatwa, the disease has returned to Nigeria this year and also spread back to several African countries that thought they had bidden farewell to it. Decades of patient and skillful work have been ruined, along with the lives of uncounted children.
Jewish babies exposed to herpes in New York, thousands of American children injured for life after the rape and torture they suffered at the hands of a compliant Catholic priesthood, prelates and mullahs outbidding each other in denial of AIDS … it's not just your mental health that is challenged by faith. Anyone who says that this evil deserves legal protection is exactly as guilty as the filthy old men who delight in inflicting it. What a pity that there is no hell.
Christopher Hitchens is a columnist for Vanity Fair. His most recent book is Thomas Jefferson: Author of America.
Article URL: http://slate.msn.com/id/2125225/
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| נשלח ב-30/8/2005 02:11 |
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מיט אזעלכע און ענליכע העצערישע הסברים און דרשות, האט מען איינגעשפארט די אידן אין אייראפע אין די געטאס, און עווענטועל צו זייער פארניכטונג רח"ל.
די דיטטשע "שטאאטסלייט" האבן אויך געהאט גאר שיין קלונגעדיגע פראזן און טויזנט טעמים פארוואס די אידן זענען א ...
דער דערמאנטער קאלומניסט קריסטאפער היטשענס שיינט צו זיין א פעסטער אנטיסעמיט, עס רינט פון יעדעס ווארט שנאה און האס. ימש"ו.
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