Aug 12, 2012 at 11:50 AM JerusalamiKugel Says:

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"camp supervisors, but were told not to tell their parents just yet"
Lock up the supervisors as well!! what a bunch of lowlifes

 Aug 12, 2012 at 11:53 AM Ina Says:

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"Sources say the boys reported the incidents in the morning to camp supervisors, but were told not to tell their parents just yet."

How dare camp officials instruct children to keep their parent's in the dark?!! What is wrong with them?!! Will this ever end?!!!

 Aug 12, 2012 at 12:00 PM SatmarChassid Says:

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Which Kosher food business hired this animal? that should be reported

 Aug 12, 2012 at 12:16 PM Anonymous Says:

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is this 48 or 45?

 Aug 12, 2012 at 12:18 PM SeichelHayushor Says:

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what a chutspah to teach children to keep secrets from their parents!!!

 Aug 12, 2012 at 12:27 PM JerusalamiKugel Says:

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You must be a great parent- you wouldnt want to know if something happened at your childs camp? I feel bad for your kids. May Hashem have mercy on your kids to have a parent say that

 Aug 12, 2012 at 12:28 PM Mikey Says:

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His name has already been reported in the regular media...

 Aug 12, 2012 at 12:32 PM Voice-of-Reason Says:

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There's nothing wrong with getting daas Torah prior to proceeding.

 Aug 12, 2012 at 12:33 PM PowerUp needs to be banned Says:

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If you find out a crime was committed against your family-your going to "Plan" for 36 hours first and then call the police?

 Aug 12, 2012 at 12:39 PM Anonymous Says:

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These camps get their food delivered daily from Downstate (Brooklyn, etc). These food companies have to hire many drivers to make these numerous runs. Not only are many of these drivers 'sick', the drivers are forced to make these long round trip runs, regardless of their physical state. A few years ago, a driver told his boss that he was too tired to make the run, but his boss forced him too. He then fell asleep at the wheel, drove off the road and was killed. The whole catskill scene is so way out of hand its crazy.

 Aug 12, 2012 at 12:42 PM A Says:

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Your so-called proper planning is for the benefit of the camp, not the children. You never ever tell children not to tell their parents something, especially something as heinous as child abuse. That is the tactic of pedophiles, not people who are supposed to care for children.

 Aug 12, 2012 at 12:42 PM bubii Says:

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Youre the dummy this does not need any planning besides calling the police right away and reporting it,if you dont see that then youre a hopeless dupe.

 Aug 12, 2012 at 12:45 PM shredready Says:

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at least they went to the police

 Aug 12, 2012 at 12:50 PM qazxc Says:

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Your's is the stupid comment, not #1.

The decision of how to deal with the situation belongs to the parents, not to the camp supervisors.

OTOH, I suppose we should be thankful that we have lived to see a frum camp report a vicious crime against frum kids even though the prime suspect is a frum looking person.

Boruch ............. shehechhiyanu........lazman hazeh!

 Aug 12, 2012 at 12:52 PM blogging mom Says:

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This is not an incident of sexual abuse. It is a sexual attack. The headline should reflect that reality, so it should read like Youths Sexually Attacked at Camp.

 Aug 12, 2012 at 12:54 PM OyGevald Says:

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Kudos to them for calling in the police!
Sure, that means the Yid will be caught.
Being caught means being exposed.
Being exposed means embarrassing his family (if he has one).
Embarrassing others means someone else may think twice about doing this again in a place where he will be ratted out.
Other dormitories beware!

 Aug 12, 2012 at 01:05 PM shredready Says:

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Sources said the suspect is a truck driver employed by a kosher-food company and may be a registered sex offender.

if true, why would anybody hire a sex offender to delivery food to a children camp.

maybe they did not know but maybe now people will check

 Aug 12, 2012 at 01:16 PM NO kudos to the camp Says:

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The camp administrators need to be locked up, even before the perpetrator because Camp officials are guilty of waiting 32 hours before calling police.

They didn’t have to consult nor "ask" anyone what to do because even a child knows that if a crime happens you call "911" and every child knows how to dial "911" and has no need to "ask" a shaalas Tam "whom to call".

Unless the camp officials are made to pay for their failure to report in a timely manner, then other camps remain in danger of repeating the same mistake.

That's in addition to unconfirmed rumors and suspicions that even to this very moment they are still telling children not to tell all and that’s the only reason why the entire world knows who the perpetrator is, yet he has not been arrested yet because police can't arrest someone if the children are told NOT to tell all the details or if they are told to say "I'm not sure" or if they are told to lie and say "I can't remember for sure" or told to lie and say "It was dark and I was sleepy so I'm not sure what happened".

The only language liars and child endangerment people understand is when they get locked up and have to pay mega bucks of fines.

 Aug 12, 2012 at 01:21 PM the voice of justice Says:

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Parents must be aware that prior to sending your child to camp,that you must review the camps procedures and policies regarding abuse.Education and awareness will bring a end to those monsters prowling around camps.if your childs camp does not have policies in place think twice and send your child to a camp that has the correct policies

 Aug 12, 2012 at 01:24 PM Joe Says:

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Raglayim ldovor takes time. Calling the police takes two minutes.

 Aug 12, 2012 at 01:30 PM kloiny Says:

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Just another good reason why the fingerprinting system is a must. Any politician or organization that blocks the fingerprinting system is a retarded person and should should be held liable. Aguda was against fingerprirnting . If campsowere mandated to have fingerprinting for anyone that is part of the camp even if they are just making delieveries this entire incident would never have happened because the truck driver does have a reocrd.

heres the shocker. the 30 year old "frum" guy raped an 11 year old frum girl.

Will the madness ever stop? The camp should get sued. Campers have told their parents that the camp burned the video that captured incident. if there was "nothing" on the video then why burn it? The camp should be shut down for hindering an investigation.

If i had my kids in this camp I would have pulled them out immediately after being notified.
it's a shame that parents actually found out about this from the ny post and not fromt he camp staff. What Chutzpah.

 Aug 12, 2012 at 01:37 PM enlightened-yid Says:

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That molester had to develop trust of the kids over time. There is no way a stranger can creep into a bunk at night and no one wakes up in screams and panic. When I was in sleep-away summer camps, our counselors who were always adults slept with us in the bunk. Where was this bunk's counselor when an intruder was sneaking into his kids' bunks? There has to be more to this story.

 Aug 12, 2012 at 01:38 PM shlomeleh Says:

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I can understand how everyone's emotions flare up when dealing with cases like this, but, we are instructed by the Torah to be "Dan lekaf zechuth" before making any allegations. I did some research and found that the police and camp officials have withdrawn the previous claim based on surveillance cameras and thorough investigation, the driver asked to use the men's room and was told that the one in the kitchen area was out of service and therefore was shown to the nearest dorm which is what he did, all evidence points to that conclusion, does this man deserve to be hung like this in public ? If something happened, then absolutely take appropriate action, but first check the facts before ruining another life (and possibly a whole family)

 Aug 12, 2012 at 01:39 PM Anonymous Says:

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It is a terrible incident however the food company is,not required to check if their workers r sex offenders I wonder if they refused him a job as a truckdriver if they could be shut down by the govt for discrimination

 Aug 12, 2012 at 01:41 PM abuezri Says:

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Really? Where? I couldn't find it.

 Aug 12, 2012 at 01:44 PM The Time-Line # 1 Says:

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According to insider information the police were not called until 32 hours later and even then, the only reason they were very upset as reported in the post and the only reason any kind of report was even ever made at all was because a Yiddish speaking blog had posted all the details and they knew it was being leaked to the press and that it would be impossible to keep it covered-up (as is usually done in most such situations) indefinitely.

The timeline part 1:

The boys overnight camp run by the 󈬠th Street” Bobover group

The perpetrator entered at least one bunk and allegedly sexually molested several children.

When “the whole bunk woke up” a bit later, an inside source said that, “rumors started” and the bunk’s “counselor immediately went to his supervisor” to report the alleged sexual abuse. The supervisor “called the Vaad,” the Bobover Rabbonim who run the camp’s administration. “The Menahal,” the director of the camp, “then spoke to the kids.” (allegedly telling them to keep it quite).

 Aug 12, 2012 at 01:45 PM The Time-Line # 2 Says:

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The camp had security cameras in place that take video of the hallways in the bunks.

Rather than call police, the camp director chose to look at that video first. He and other administration members watched the recording. But, the recording was “grainy,” the source told me, “and it was dark and they couldn't first make out who it was [walking in the hall].” “It took hours” for the director and the Vaad to determine that the person they saw was the Food Delivery driver.

Hours had passed and no police report had yet been made.

“As soon as they figured out who it was [on the recording] they researched the person and found him to have a sex offender record. The first thing they did was call the Food Delivery Company and advise them not to allow” the driver “to make deliveries to any other camp."

The man which camp officialshad allegedly seen on the recording, is a Level 2 sex offender

Rumor has it that the camp administrator allegedly destroyed or hid the footage of the "driver" entering children's rooms but it has since been recovered digitally by the security company.

 Aug 12, 2012 at 01:48 PM berelw Says:

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to the commenter that commented to seek daas torah...let me see if your daughter chas v'sholom gets raped if you will seek daas torah or will alert the authorities or may even grab a baseball bat.....so stop with your nonsense...use common sense ...the fifth and important shulchan aurach.

 Aug 12, 2012 at 01:56 PM mendel Says:

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I agree with you, the children were asked not to tell their parents just yet and by 3pm the camp called the Criminal-defense attorney and former Sullivan County prosecutor Stephen Lungen said anxious camp officials called him at approximately 3 p.m. on Thursday to ask how to proceed. “They were very upset and concerned about how to deal with it,” Lungen said. I think that is 100% good thinking by the heads of the camp
Kol Hackovod to the camp

 Aug 12, 2012 at 01:58 PM maxedout Says:

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Sorry, your so called "daas torah" has already proven many times over that they have no daas when it comes to child abuse. If I have a kashrus question, I will ask them, if its a real issue, I won't bother.

 Aug 12, 2012 at 02:12 PM Anonymous Says:

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So by trying to show they are protecting the kids, they install cameras and then tell the kids don't tell your parents yet!!!!! Twisted!! They deserve this bad publicity. The more you try to cover up the more exposure you get. Good for the NY Post.

 Aug 12, 2012 at 02:23 PM yenta Says:

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This is not abuse. This is an-out-and-out sexual attack.

 Aug 12, 2012 at 03:19 PM Yerachmiel Says:

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I am tired of the stupid comments about how 36 hours is not a problem. If it should turn out a child was raped then 36 hours could be the difference between medical treatment that prevents him from getting AIDS or having a permanent bowel disorder and recovering more fully. If there is DNA evidence it can be lost in 36 hours. If there is evidence that could settle the question, it can be destroyed in 36 hours. On the other hand, reporting quickly, can make it possible to get a conviction or plea bargain without the child having to testify in court.

Worst of all, children should never to be told to conceal such things from their parents. One of the best ways to stop molesting if it starts is by having children know, farkert, that they should tell their parents if someone else touches them in a wrong way.

Let me ask these advocates of 36 hour reporting, whats if there was a psak that if yid is running around with a knife you should call a rav instead 911. That would be meshugah. Next time a woman goes into labor will you call a rav to ask if you should go to the hospital. Mamesh "chosid shoteh." Poskim have already ruled that molesting creates a situtation of pikuach nefesh.

 Aug 12, 2012 at 03:20 PM Yerachmiel Says:

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911

 Aug 12, 2012 at 03:30 PM OYVY2 Says:

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take your head out of the sand it is a panic . we must instruct our children to call their parents or yell right away, I don't know why they waited until morning unless there were no adults around. the supervisors of this camp should be held accountable, sue if you have to money talks.

 Aug 12, 2012 at 04:00 PM sam46th Says:

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Was this story Wednesday morning or Thursday morning?

 Aug 12, 2012 at 04:06 PM Yisroel Says:

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It is reported on some blogs that the reason why the Police have not made any arrest of the person seen clearly on the video, is because the children have been told not to tell investigators exactly what happened.

The Law is powerless to arrest the molester and must now allow this molester to go free and move on to the next camp to continue and molest further and to do to other children the same which he did in this camp.

 Aug 12, 2012 at 04:12 PM Mazal Tov Says:

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The perpetrator in this case, is protected by law to continue molesting because the children of the camp have been told to refuse to talk to law enforcement (details of what REALLY happened) and without them talking, the law says that the molester is free to continue doing, whatever molesters usually continue to do, if they are not arrested.

For all those who celebrate the freedom of Molesters, should all send their Mazal Tov's, congratulating the camp for an excellent cover-up job, well done and executed flawlessly.

For the rest of us it's sad day in Jewish history where our leadership cares more about their own personal shame than about protecting our frum children.

 Aug 12, 2012 at 04:38 PM Yenta Says:

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I agree 100%. AL TA'AMOD AL DAM RE|ECHA includes children, for heavens' sake. This was an emergency and 9-11 should have been called stat. Hashem Yerachem.

 Aug 12, 2012 at 04:47 PM Chosid shel Bobov Says:

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As much as I would like to blast the camp administration on this, I would sooner take a middle of the road perspective. The administration moved slowly on this but methodically and responsibly, for the most part. Here's why.

The camp administration has a dayan, and he guides them as the rabbinical arm of the administration. He is as much part of the moves as anyone else. He needed to be notified, and he ruled as he should have. The administration was also careful to review the footage several times until they could reach some identity of the alleged perp. Again, this is correct. They placed an immediate call to the employer to insure that this guy has no entrance to camps. Again, this prevents additional possible offenses. They temporarily withheld kids from notifying parents. Again, for good reason. Once we know the children are safe (perp not present, and others warned), make the moves to authorities. There was delay in this process which should have been minimized greatly, and this is the true complaint. The other actions were done responsibly, and no one acted on knee jerks. I applaud the judgment. I subscribe to Bobov 45th - but I give credit where it is due.

 Aug 12, 2012 at 05:01 PM Rabbi_CS Says:

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Rabbi Yakov Horowitz, perhaps the formos Askan among the Chareidi Jews who is working on stopping molestation in our community, has always said that the cornerstone of any plan to protect your children is to let them know from early on that there is NOBODY your child should listen to when told to keep anything from their parents.

As soon as a child feels that there are people they should listen to and keep things away from a parent, you just created a potential victim.

A child who will tell their parents everything has a layer of protection that will keep them from being victimized.

Congratulations, camp Babov.

Not only did a convicted molester penetrate your walls, and attack your children, you also set them up - and the rest of the camp up - for being victims again.

 Aug 12, 2012 at 05:04 PM Rabbi_CS Says:

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Are you SERIOUS???

You mean to tell me you will tell a CHILD who was RAPED not to speak to his own MOTHER OR FATHER???

ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND?????

HE IS A RAPE VICTIM!!!

HOW DARE YOU SUPPORT KEEPING HIM AWAY FROM HIS PARENTS!!!??!!

 Aug 12, 2012 at 05:20 PM Elliot Pasik, Esq. Says:

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Once again, we witness a situation where the simplest background check would have prevented these crimes. The camp, which, in reality, is also a school, should have background checked every employee, and also every independent contractor who enters their premises. A registered sex offender should not step foot onto any camp and school facility. The food delivery company should not have hired him, and the camp/school should not have allowed him on their property. The simplest Google check would have revealed the truck driver as a registered sex offender. Sadly, it is now six years since the first mandatory background check bill was introduced in the NYS Legislature, and it still has not passed. Other states have it, and NY does not.. Shame on all of us. I hope and pray that the children heal well, and the perpetrator receives the full punishment he deserves.

 Aug 12, 2012 at 05:35 PM bobever 45 Says:

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First of all I understand everyones reaction that police shoudl be called straight away and he should be locked up for 300 years but hey slow down the fact is that he didn't touch any kids the fact is that he delivered food to the kutchen when he asked to use the bathroom he was told that the one in the kitchen is out of order and that the closest bathroom is in the dorm,so he went there to use the facilities a kid saw him exit the building told his counsler which notified the director which notified the police so fact he is innocent and that's why after 5 days there's no charges pressed so all that's left is bad publicity for the camp, driver, and food company, so before you jump to conclusions there needs to be some judgment and clear thinking rather then calling parents police and panicking

 Aug 12, 2012 at 05:40 PM Yosef Says:

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The Administration of the Camp needs to be replaced.

The Dayan told them to call police.

But the Administration thought that they are smarter and did NOT call.

Only Ben H. from Flatbush had to call.

A Kehila can not exist if it's Administrators don't follow their own Rabbunim and Rebbe.

 Aug 12, 2012 at 06:09 PM Ina Says:

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I don't know whether to laugh or cry! I am sure there were many people in the kitchen at 4:30 AM to advise the driver that the rest room was out of order and to direct him to the nearest bunk house! Will the insanity never stop?!

 Aug 12, 2012 at 06:50 PM curious Says:

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If the child needs antiviral meds or something like that it needs to be done immediately.

 Aug 12, 2012 at 07:04 PM Shlomo2 Says:

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Before reporting it to the police, they first had to make sure that the perpetrator wasn't someone well-connected.

 Aug 12, 2012 at 07:42 PM BLONDI Says:

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if you agree with this camp's procedure then send your child there next season. are you allowed to put your child into danger???

 Aug 12, 2012 at 08:02 PM Anti Liberals Says:

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self hating Jews stop!!!!!
what ever an orthodox Jew will do, will be wrong! there is no reason to answer all these nonsense because all these comments are written by self hating Jews which deep in heart have a problem with judiasim!!!
Today we live in a so called open world where every child has to know everthing whats going on including all the shmutz !!!
what a smart Jewish way of handling a situation!! what do you want better 7 parents which = 14 people coming down to camp with police turning the camp upside down educate all children whats going on???? that sounds better start thinking a bit stop being so one track minded against orthodox Jews !

 Aug 12, 2012 at 08:10 PM Ayin_Tachas_Ayin Says:

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Everybody is quick to judge. Nobody mentioned the fact that this camp houses several hundred kids. With the current legal system, between investigators, psycologists etc. making their rounds and taking over the place, the "system's" psycological damage may be much more than the actual incident. It's easy to condemn and there are people that simply go bonkers whenever this topic comes up. Police is far from the "best" answer to these problems, although they're sometimes needed.
The administration did the right thing by contacting the vender and stopping the molester in his tracks, this accomplished that the kids are out of harms way. All other action was not iminent and the camp needed to put the kids interest first and sure that the entire bunk house does not go through the psycological and legal wringer.

 Aug 12, 2012 at 08:14 PM Sam Eiger Says:

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Before I read the article I thought it was someone from the camp. Which got me thinking. What do we do where the perpatrator is himself a minor i.e a teenaged counselour or the like. Should we get the police involved as well? Or is there more room to be lenient in that case. These things happen (Although I hope never to be in that dilemma). Wondering what people think from a moral and legal perspective.

 Aug 12, 2012 at 08:15 PM Sherree Says:

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I believe this is the worst thing yet. Who do they believe they are standing in between children who would need their parents the most at a time like this and their parents????? Seriously, this is going to far. It is one thing to call the parents, have them come up to the camp to comfort their kids and ask them not to say anything until they all figure out what to do together, but to tell the kids NOT to call their parents is worse than reprehensible, interfering with the law and their rights, it interferes with the investigation. Who knows what else they told the kids, did they tell them not to cooperate with the investigation? Did they tell them NOT to tell their parents the whole truth? How could anyone trust them at this point?

 Aug 12, 2012 at 08:20 PM Ina Says:

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And here is another with this prepostrous story or shall we say obvious coverup! I don't believe for a second that there were other individuals in the kitchen at 4:30 AM. I also don't believe for a second that the rest rooms were out of order. We are talking about a kitchen that is likely off a dining room in a boys camp. There had to be several available bathrooms the driver could have used! No driver would have been roaming the camp at 4:30 AM looking to use a bathroom in the nearest bunk house unless he had criminal intent! Please don't anyone else post this rediculous piece of rubbish anymore!

 Aug 12, 2012 at 08:23 PM esther Says:

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sadly you are exactly right. the entire idea of telling a child not to tell their parents,even temporarily,is the last thing anyone in the camp's position should have done.this is from the veiwpoint of safety and poshut common decency which unfortunately as we have seen is not to common in our world.

 Aug 12, 2012 at 08:35 PM Sherree Says:

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A PANIC? Let's go over this. It is called the "rights" of the child and the "rights" of the parents. What does that have to do with "panic"? The Nurse calls the parents and says to them, "Your son is fine but he needs you to come here. He was involved in something that we can't discuss over the phone. Please rest assured that I am watching over him and he is OK, but would rather have his mother than a camp nurse". It is as simple as that.

And the camp nurse and no one else should be with those children until the parents arrive. NO ONE should be allowed to speak to those kids until the parents arrive. BTW the camp nurse is a mandatory reporter.

 Aug 12, 2012 at 08:37 PM Sherree Says:

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OK, so pin a note to your child's shirt when you send him out the door in case it happens to your child. Let Daas Torah decide for you. If it was my child they better report him or I might just go after him myself.

 Aug 12, 2012 at 08:40 PM Sherree Says:

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Yes, that was the very "least" they could do.

 Aug 12, 2012 at 08:41 PM Ina Says:

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How dare you call us all self hating Jews?! Who do you think you are?! How would you feel if it were your son sleeping soundly in his bunk and there was a sex offender on the prowl?! Why don't you think before you spew venom from your keyboard?!

 Aug 12, 2012 at 08:43 PM Sherree Says:

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You are right. The parents should sue the camp, first for negligence and not having enough security, not having someone watch the cameras/videos at night especially when deliveries and outsiders enter camp grounds, and for telling the kids NOT to call their parents and interfering with the investigation.

 Aug 12, 2012 at 08:45 PM Sherree Says:

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I agree on all points.

 Aug 12, 2012 at 08:47 PM Sherree Says:

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Seriously? You are playing word games? This IS sexual abuse!!! HE abused these boys. Attacking a child IS abuse!!!!

 Aug 12, 2012 at 08:49 PM Sherree Says:

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Either the camp should be shut down or the administration should be removed, but these kids are not safe there.

 Aug 12, 2012 at 08:58 PM Sherree Says:

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It is pretty easy to find out who it is if the cops check the employee records and the work schedule for the supplier. If they don't cooperate, then I hope the cops do everything in their power to shut them down.

 Aug 12, 2012 at 09:00 PM Sherree Says:

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The molester did NOT have to develop a trust for kids if he came each time when the kids were sleeping.

 Aug 12, 2012 at 09:04 PM Sherree Says:

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Here is the information you "lack", if the dorm is full of sleeping children, NO STRANGER should be allowed in. If he needed the bathroom the adult who directed him should have accompanied him to the bunkhouse and supervised the sleeping children while he was allowed to use the facilities. Or better yet, he should have been directed to the shul.

The genius who directed him to his prey should be fired at the very least, I was going to say "shot" but I guess that might seem harsh to some. Obviously he had NO training in Child Safety issues. I would like to know what kind of Child Safety training did the employees get. Obviously not enough or not the right kind.

This is even more disgraceful that the molester just sneaking in to the bunk.

 Aug 12, 2012 at 09:10 PM Sherree Says:

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Ok, lets give credit where it is due. The first call is always to protect the kids, that is their number one obligation. Therefore you first give the children what they need and that is their parents. The second thing is that their first phone call according the report was NOT to the dayan!

 Aug 12, 2012 at 09:12 PM Sherree Says:

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Are you trying to recreate the events? HE DID TOUCH THE KIDS, which means he molested and sexually abused the kids. That is the report, that he fondled two kids. Wake up and stop trying to rewrite this story.

 Aug 12, 2012 at 09:36 PM Anonymous Says:

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Sherree:

You and several others have jumped to several conclusions here, and have based a whole lot of hate, accusation, and blame on those conclusions. Neither you nor I know exactly what happened. You're exhbiting the same sin'as chinom that dominated the blogs during the Kletzky tragedy last year when the subject of molestation was introduced into the discussion by the "advocates" when there was no such thing. Same goes for the anti-Shomrim drivel. I'm as concerned as anyone for the kids. I am worse than upset that the police were not notified sooner. But much of the process was done responsibly with the children in mind. I am politically against Bobov 48th, but I cannot roast them on this one for much.

We do not know the details of the story, just the "facts" appearing on this website and some anti-chareidi blogs. Police can now investigate and then we'll know more. Meanwhile, calm down. Frum Jews aren't all bad.

 Aug 12, 2012 at 10:08 PM STRAIGHT_FACTS Says:

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Just to set things straight; tapes were not destroyed and the boys were NOT told not to tell their parents or speak to the police! They were told not to speak to reporters and in my opinion, rightfully so. The administration acted responsibly immediately investigating matters before reaching out to the police. Hold off on the bad publicity since it only takes one blogger to distort the facts. Thank you administration; since my son was one of the boys in the 14 bed bunkhouse.

 Aug 12, 2012 at 10:12 PM Ina Says:

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Again, don't believe for a second that there was anyone awake and in the kitchen at 4:30 AM when this sex offender made his delivery. Don't believe for a second that there was no available bathroom in the kitchen or dining room. This is all a cover up and for what, I don't know. Camps are wide open which is something this sex offender knew all too well. We have a very serious problem on our hands!

 Aug 12, 2012 at 10:52 PM Yerachmiel Says:

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The story about the visiting driver needing to go to the bathroom is a bubbe meise or should I say a Bobov Meise. However I dont want to criticize all of Bobov, just those inside the camp who were negligent (or worse) and those involved in a clumsy cover up. If this had to do with urges they werent about urges to go to the bathroom. As several commenters pointed out there are plenty of unused bathroms in common areas in a camp in the middle of the night. Food deliveries are not made to the bunk areas. they are made to kitchens or other food storage areas. No matter how you stir or slice this food story a visitor does not belong in the bunk areas in the middle of the night. At best the cover up is about not taking responsibility for negligence.

no matter why there was a cover up, this has all the hallmarks of cover ups starting with pressuring kids to not tell the truth and to not believe what ehir own eyes and bodies experienced.

Besides I hear even the hanhalah is spreading the word that the night tourist was only tickling some boy's feet. If they admit that much I say it wasn't just the feet and it wasn't just tickling. We have no idea just how bad this episode was.

 Aug 12, 2012 at 11:06 PM rebbetzin Says:

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If it was a goy delivery driver going into the kid's bunk and stealing from their lockers, police would be called immediately, children would be calling their mothers, and camp directors would be reviewing the survielance video with law enforcement immediately.
just sayin

 Aug 12, 2012 at 11:20 PM Anonymous Says:

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Not to distract from the urgency of this matter, this incident smacks of what's wrong in general with our institutions today; that of not trusting parents to know what's right for their own kids. Rather than allowing children to follow what they or their parents think is the right path, the institution blanketly dictates what their general population ought to do. If parents wish to take another road, they are shunned and ridiculed. So even if the child wishes to follow his parents and or his heart, the institution is uber alles. So now we have created a generation of monsters who are so confused.

 Aug 12, 2012 at 11:21 PM Anonymous Says:

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Notice the Bobovers are the only ones trying to defend this lousy situation....

 Aug 12, 2012 at 11:22 PM Anonymous Says:

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Thanks VIN for your latest Mitzvah in allowing us to understand the reality once again. Yours is the only website which has the nerve. Kudos.

 Yesterday at 07:23 AM Ina Says:

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Thank you. Let's remember that camps are on camp time which means that when the sex offender arrived at 4:30 AM city time it was ony 3:30 AM camp time. So, I will keep saying it: There was absolutely no one in the kitchen at 3:30 AM! Nobody directed him to any bathroom anywhere! How dare they think we are so stupid to believe such a tale!

 Aug 12, 2012 at 11:41 PM The facts please Says:

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That is quoting 'SOURCES'. 

First, according to the CCTV the perp was in the building for 13 minutes during which a few kids said someone tickled them. More kids woke up, a commotion ensued and the guy fled. No one was raped. As horrific as molestation is, it is not the same a rape. 
Second, the camp staff did not encourage the victims not to tell their parents. What they did ask is from the rest of the kids not to tell their parents and cause panic until all facts were investigated. 

 Yesterday at 12:50 AM Neptune Nathan Says:

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Very well said. The policy of protecting registered sex offenders cuts across various Chasidish groups. These people have learned nothing and don't speak for me.

 Yesterday at 01:02 AM Yanky_BP Says:

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Why is everyone attacking the truck driver? Maybe it was a Rabbi, counselor, ect ect.

 Yesterday at 01:29 AM Ayin_Tachas_Ayin Says:

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I think that people really don't comprehend the scope of the issue.
This is relatively one of the larger boys camps in the mountains and it seems to me that most people on this blog would prefer that police be called immediately.
Let’s play this out: (1) Police come within several minutes – (2) Entire bunkhouse [about 120 kids] get briefed by police at 5 or 6 am – (3) Parents are notified immediately – (4) hundreds of parents show up to camp in an effort to get answers and straighten things out – (5) followed by a team of psychologists that are brought in to help questions the kids (6) psychologist of course begin a full fledge sex education with their questioning – (7) Investigation trickles down to other bunk houses as just one kid thinks that he saw the perpetrator hovering around the other bunkhouse – (8) now the all the kids are lined up for questioning – (8) media shows and of course praises the camp director for acting so quickly and in the same time interviewing the parents who are DEMANDING answers – etc. etc. Can you imagine the spectacle and emotional damage that this would inflict on the entire camp of children?
Get the gist?

 Yesterday at 01:31 AM Ayin_Tachas_Ayin Says:

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A son of a friend of mine was molested a while ago and it was reported to the police. Bottom line: after 2 days of dealing with authorities he pulled out of the case with the reason being – his kid was falling apart from all the questioning – and when the father was told that for a conviction, his child would need to take the stand in court and testify – he refused to cooperate. (They made sure that the perpetrator goes to rehab and is registered as an offender).
Can you imagine putting hundreds of kids through this – would you want one of your kids to go through police examination, psychological evaluations, couple that with the publicity? You’d be the pity talk of town… is that the healthy way? Really?
It's easy to condemn and there are people that simply go bonkers whenever this topic comes up. Police is far from the "best" answer to these problems, although they're sometimes needed.
The administration did the right thing by contacting the vender and stopping the molester in his tracks, this accomplished that the kids are out of harm’s way. All other actions were not imminent and the camp needed to put the kid’s interest first and sure that the entire doesn’t go off a cliff.

 Yesterday at 01:32 AM mugsisme Says:

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I have an app on my Android, a list where registered offended are shown to me. When I first put the app on my phone, I was shocked to find a 6 foot, 200 pound PoG who lives a few doors down from me. My kids have been shown his picture (thank you app), and where he lives. They are not allowed to walk on that street, or walk outside alone. I have warned all my neighbors as well. People aren't happy he is here, but now we all know, and we are watching him.

The app tells me where ever I am if there is a registered offended near me. I get weekly emails from them. I use the one S@x Offender Searcher for a droid. Hashem should protect all our kids from such demented people.

 Yesterday at 09:49 AM shlomogabai Says:

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Shread i admire your sincerety. While the jerusalemkugel etc will stop at nothing from bashing another jew, you are ready to appreciate what they have done! They went to the authorities! Thats progress! You understood their confusion (keep quiet till we calm down a drop and with a settled mind proceed the responsibke way) . This kugel is just out to slander, spread hate and villify curageous people who after soo long hiding everything under the rug, did what was right! He should be encouraged, applauded not bashed (if ones goal is sincerely only to. Promote something positive).

 Yesterday at 10:30 AM cent_cent Says:

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Yeah. Apparently you were never in a sleep away camp. There are always people in the kitchen at 4:30am - especially if there was a delivery then. In camps, that is when they start making the food for the day. Also, there is actually a rotation in most kitchens for people to be there early b/c that is when deliveries come in. If you dont know the facts about camps, please dont comment.

 Yesterday at 11:30 AM Sherree Says:

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IT is you, my friend, that is assuming too much! I don't care which camp it is, chasidish or not. I know frum Jews are not all bad because I AM a frum Jew and I behave as one with Yiras shamayim not yiras PR and $$$$$. Pull your head out of the sand and the rest of your body will follow and then maybe, just maybe, you will go learn a little more on the subject so you will have a better understanding of the reaction that has occurred.

FYI, I myself wanted to call the cops upstate as soon as I heard about it but refrained because I did not have first hand information and did not want to jump to conclusions on a rumor. That is called raglayim l'davar.

 Yesterday at 11:33 AM Sherree Says:

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I won't say for sure that there is no one up in the kitchen at that time because it is very possible if the bake their own rolls and cakes that there would be bakers in the kitchen. However I do agree with you about the improbability of functioning bathrooms!

 Yesterday at 11:37 AM Sherree Says:

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Let's go back to the video tape, and the eye witnesses!

 Yesterday at 11:44 AM Sherree Says:

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Here is another scenario ...the kids report it to the admin (which is what happened). The admin calls parents and asks them to come down to the camp without actually telling them just saying they will fill them in when they get there. The camp calls the cops and asks them to send detectives and be discrete because they don't want to start a panic in the camp and they need direction here because they were never in such a situation before. The two kids stay in the infirmary until the parents come. The cops in the mean time do their job whether it is to go to the supplier to get a photo of the guy, his address, etc.

 Yesterday at 11:45 AM There simply is no other choice Says:

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Ayin_Tachas_Ayin # 83 explains very well, the great difficulty facing the victims who do the right thing and go to Police right away and the entire backlash which they suffer as a result of the publicity and pressure etc.

What # 83 says is all true but he is dead wrong anyway!

The problem we as a society and even more so as a frum society face from pedophiles, is that it's like a cancer that if you don't cut it out AT ALL COSTS, then the rest of society can no longer exists safely.

There simply is no other choice and it the one and only option left.

Anyone who was a victim and the parents and family and the school and camp where the molestation took place will ALL suffer greatly - That's True!

The victim and his parents will be thrown out of every shull because the Rabbonim will pressure him not to testify and the ra-bonims and as-konims pressure will make his life in this world a living hell unless he surrenders and lets the pedophile go free That all 100% true.

Is there any other choice?

The answer is no!

Is it painful? Yes!

BUT THERE IS NO OTHER CHOICE!

Yochid Verabim Halacha Kerabim - 1 Yachid will suffer but Klal Yisrole will be safe.

 Yesterday at 11:46 AM Sherree Says:

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FYI, the child still needs psychological evaluations and will need therapy for a long time till adulthood!

 Yesterday at 11:52 AM Sherree Says:

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Why the confusion? They could have and should have gotten the safety traing available to all schools and camps for this very purpose. They should have had a safety plan in force, and they should have policy and procedures to follow without confusion. Everyone should have known exactly what each one of them were supposed to do. From the ok from the Dayan in advance, to who should call the parents, who should be in charge of the victims, who should call the police, who should be in charge of the rest of the camp, what to tell them or not and how to keep things über control.

 Yesterday at 12:00 PM Yeah Sure! Says:

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There are always countless bathrooms in every lunchroom area especially for a camp like bobov that has so many hundreds of children, being one of the largest camps in the area. Even small camps have countless bathrooms in the camp dining area.

In addition to the countless numbers of bathrooms for the campers eating area, there are several bathrooms and countless more separate bathrooms for the use of the staff who work in the kitchen.

What kind of fools do you think everyone is to believe such an idiotic concocted bube-maaseh story that 100 bathrooms all went out of order suddenly, and all of them broke down at the same second?

You expect us to belive such tipshus that all of the 100 bathrooms broke down in exactly in the early morning hours (when no one is around to use them) before they can be repaired and all the 100 bathrooms miraculously knew exactly when to break down just in the nick of time when the Molester chose to molest his victims at 3:30am?

What ridiculous tipshus!

Are you nuts or what?

 Yesterday at 12:15 PM NewsLover Says:

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Who ever didn't notice!!! THERE IS A WORD 'YET' that stands for KIDS YOU'RE GOING TO TELL YOUR PARANTS, JUST!!!! NOT YET!!!! its very normal to think how to tell parants, what to do first and after, don't be so neg. Matter of fact, I haven't see so many comments on a news for a long prior of time!!! A SIGN ON NEGETIVITY!!!

 Yesterday at 01:41 PM srulyk Says:

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Let's say there's truth to this story or even many such stories, Keep in mind there are thousands upon thousands of kids keina hora in upstate for summer weeks & overall having a great time physically & spiritually & at the end of the day we live for our children Etc. So to say: "The whole catskill scene is so way out of hand its crazy." Is an illogical statement. Or could be your referring to something else regarding the castkils...?

 Yesterday at 02:01 PM Lawyer Says:

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There is a saying going around that "you are entitled to your own opinion, you are not entilted to your own facts."

From a review of this thread, it is clear that the "facts" about this case are pretty confused. Until the facts are clear, you should not condemn anyone -- that is the essence of being dan le kaf zechus.

 Yesterday at 02:37 PM cent_cent Says:

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I dont know much about this camp specifically as I have never been there. There might be more bathrooms near the dining area. I never argued that. I was just stating that it is not odd to have people in the kitchen at that hour. As to the rest of the story, I dont know. Just a bit of information you should know. Camp bathrooms break all the time. Plus one pipe bursting can take out a whole section of bathrooms. It happens all the time in camps. The pipes are old and the plumbing is usually not very high quality. Again, I am not validating the story, just saying that it is not that far-fetched at all for the bathrooms to be out of order in a whole section of a camp. I know first hand as this happened multiple times throughout my years at camps upstate - (at least once every summer).

 Yesterday at 03:47 PM Ina Says:

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I know an awful lot about sleep away camps and I certainly know that there is no one in the kitchen at 3:30 AM camp time!

 Yesterday at 04:42 PM cent_cent Says:

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Sorry. Coming from someone who was in summer camps for about 15 years, I can honestly say you are greatly mistaken. The deliveries come in early and there has to be someone there to receive them and put them in the proper place. It is very common for people to be in kitchen at any time of night (especially if there is an expected delivery). Been there, done that. If you insist that there is no one there you obviously have never been to one.

 Yesterday at 05:17 PM cent_cent Says:

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One other thing. The fact that you keep referring to camp time actually shows that you dont know all that much about the kitchens in camps. Actually, in most camps the kitchen does not use camp time. They are the only group that uses city time precisely b/c of the early hours and that they have to coordinate with the delivery people.

 Yesterday at 05:17 PM KG Says:

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I don't get it. After he touched the first kid, the kid should have started yelling and woken up his whole bunk and counselor, and tackled the intruder. How could they just go back to sleep and only report this in the morning!!!

 Yesterday at 05:47 PM Ina Says:

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With that thinking, then I suppose you would say that the proprieters of all the grocery stores and eateries in Brooklyn are on the premises at 4:30 or 5:30 AM to accept their deliveries! However, anyone who has passed by them and seen the deliveries on the sidewalk knows this just isn't so! For the record, I have spent numerous years in camps in the Catskills.

 Yesterday at 06:51 PM ayoyo Says:

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Would everyone please be careful not to post comments about a happening that has no firsthand witnesses .This is all nothing but Lashon h'rah

 Yesterday at 08:23 PM LoveNY Says:

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So the secret is out, now that he was exposed on the site that deals with this. Lesson learned, nobody is to be entrusted, unless approved with thorough screening!

 Yesterday at 08:51 PM ToStraightFacts Says:

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Thanks for telling the truth and being one of a few voices of reason among the many sinners who just at the 1st chance to destroy the reputations of every Frum person. Insider info happens to be that "Ben from Flatbush" runs screaming to the media every time he sniffs out a fake story where he might be able and try and kill another's Ruv's name with malicious made up maasehs. The truth finally should come out and we should speak out against these vicious sad otd haters who only look to scream foul when there's Frum involved.

 Yesterday at 08:28 PM LoveNY Says:

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Lashon horah?
If there is a wild animal in a place, were your precious ones are. Ok lets just say a possible wild animal, would you turn the other way, and still ignore the danger?

 Yesterday at 08:46 PM You're right Says:

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Agree totally with you. The self hating anti-Frum "advocates" couldn't care less about the children, they only live to defame Frumkeit and Rabbis in particular. BenH should be getting therapy for his own victimization I stead of chasing rabbis night and day and blogging anti-Frum diatribes.

 Yesterday at 08:56 PM BonkersIsRight Says:

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Tjose that go bonkers are the so called advocates who aren't really advocates, they're really former victims themselves. Sad but very true, that these people haven't worked out their own history of being abused and I stead they spend the st of their lives jumping on every story they believe might involve molesting, and especially the ones that are no,longer religious focus on targeting the religious. They can never ease their own pain guilt and shame this way. Therapys the only way to go.

 Yesterday at 10:01 PM Sherree Says:

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Probably because they were also not taught personal safety and were terrified not knowing what to do.

 Yesterday at 10:07 PM Sherree Says:

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YOU are NOT right, as a matter of fact YOU are wrong, but I would not expect anything else from people like you who forgive the guilty and accuse the innocent and their supporters. I bet you went to support Weberman as well. Shame on you and everyone like you who claim advocates are Rabbi haters and all the other lies and garbage you choose to attach to those who have finally stood up yo protect YOUR children. B"H they have rallied together over the past few years and brought awareness into he open so, parents, mechanichim and children can each learn how in their own ways to empower themselves on this issue!

 Yesterday at 10:08 PM Yerachmiel Says:

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Don't blame the messenger who called the police. Something happened and the camp administration didn't call the police or allow the kids to talk to the parents. How do I know this. I hear from sources inside the Bobov Bais Medrish in BP that the story coming from the BP hanhalah is that it only involved tickling feet.

I also hear from somone who spoke to their son in camp that the kids were told the police was there because someone was "wandering around the bunks at night" and they just wanted to investigate. Would they have given the kids that story if nothing at all happened.

So yes they admitted someone was in the bunks in the middle of the night. Secondly, if the hanhalah says feet, I say further up. If they say tickling I say unwanted physical contact probably of a sexual nature. In simple English we are talking about molesting. I suppose there are guys that wander into bunks in the middle of the night to tickle feet and do nothing more. But come on guys, that is a very far fetched story.

So, to simplify the story, we are talking about molesting and a cover up. So, complain all you want about Ben Hirsch of Flatbush because he called. Is he not mechuyav lo saamod?

 Yesterday at 10:11 PM Sherree Says:

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And there you go another back seat driver trying not to understand or even listen to victim/survivors but instead analyse them and comment on your own inexperienced and unqualified diagnosis. You are wrong on all counts. Advocates consist of all kinds of people from all professions and walks of life, victim/survivors and those who have chosen to finally give them a voice and the respect they deserve!

State Police investigating the scene at Camp Shalva